Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lunatock on July 14, 2008 at 9:35pm

Oh wow. I would love to do this. I planned on going to see GZA and Del in concert on Friday the 25th at Forecastle. If at all possible I'd still love to do this, especially if I can go for free and take pictures.
I'm definitely interested, especially if I can photograph the performances I mentioned earlier.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Lewis on July 14, 2008 at 10:21pm

This is the sole reason why photography is going down the drain.

I really dislike anyone who is seriously considering doing this for free.

Theyre going to USE you. "Come, do work for us, give us all your pictures, and then we will keep you in mind next time we want something for nothing!"

This is what I got a few days ago...

From: Leslie A. Stewart
> Date: Jul 5, 2008 12:34 PM
> Subject: Think you could forward this to some of your photographic
> acquaintances?
> To: leslie@forecastlefest.com
> Cc: Brian Bohannon
>
> The 7th annual Forecastle Festival
> (www.forecastlefest.com) is looking for
> photographers to be part of the official coverage team.
> Photos would be
> credited, used by other media (with permission) and used on the
> Forecastlewebsite and other official festival publications used
> to attract sponsors,
> etc.
>
> It's not a paying gig, but there are reasonably short shifts and
> there are
> some nice perks (VIP access, free food and drink, other
> goodies). If you're
> into the various kinds of music we're presenting, or interested
> in the
> environmental activism part of the festival (we have Robert
> Kennedy Jr. as
> our keynote speaker), it could be an exciting and fun way to
> spend part of
> your last weekend of July.
>
> If interested, please contact Forecastle photography coordinator Brian
> Bohannon at (502) 417-8756 or mail@brianbohannon.com. Even
> if you're not
> interested personally, please pass this info around to as many
> of your
> fellow photogs as you like. We're looking for
> videographers as well.
>
> Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
>
> Best,
>
> Leslie Stewart
>
> Leslie A. Stewart Media Relations
> 1914 Bonnycastle Ave.
> Louisville, KY 40205
> (502) 451-7569

So they want you to come and work for them, give them your pictures so that they can promote themselves and they want to do it for free! The real shitty part about this is all the people out there with their cameras who think, "Oh sweet! Ill do this for free! How awesome!".

I cant blame companies for trying to exploit people like that. Companies are all in business for themselves and thats nothing new. However, noob photographers doing stuff for companies for free IS something new and its driving the photo market down into the toilet.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Armbrust on July 14, 2008 at 10:37pm

And the quality of images shows that.
Forecastle is not a charity. It is a money maker. Why should we donate if they do not?

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Permalink Reply by Scott Slusher on July 14, 2008 at 10:51pm

Trust me from my own experience, Forecastle makes money off of this event. They can certainly afford to pay a few photographers to shoot quality images of their events for future promotional media. I agree with Adam, this is the number one reason why there are few good, quality paying gigs in Louisville. Why should there be when anyone with a digital camera is willing to do it for free. I have absolutely no respect for anyone who shoots these types of events for free... regardless of the so-called perks they say they're offering.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Stone on July 14, 2008 at 10:53pm

I agree, Adam. I know that the photography coordinator Brian shoots for AP...and it's not for free. Does Leslie get paid for the publicity work? I bet she does...do the sound guys get paid? I bet they do. Why else would you need sponsors? To help pay for the costs of putting this together.

Shooting for credit is crap. Sorry to be so blunt but that does nothing for the profession. Or for you. (Does LG & E accept your photo credit in liu of payment? I doubt it.) Can you go to kroger and say, "Well, I will give you credit and tell everybody about Kroger if you give me free food..." Not hardly. And shooting free video as well? Wow...I guess I get grouchy like this because this is how I make my living.

Unfortunately, there's always people willing to shoot concerts for free. But if you get known for shooting for free, why would anyone want to hire you for future work? Because you already did it for free...why should you expect money?

Hey, I like JK McKnight. I've shot him before for publication. But I don't think it's in a photographer's best interest to shoot for free in events like this.

It's a free market. You can choose what you want to do. But getting known as the "free" photographer who gives his work away can hurt you in the future.

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Permalink Reply by The Rev on July 15, 2008 at 12:45am

I think we need to remember here also that alot of photographers who are really great at certain areas of photography are still working on other areas that maybe they haven't had the opportunity to do yet and may question if they are worthy of being paid for something they haven't tried yet. This is a great way to get some experience and some photos for their portfolio and try it on to see if it fits.
This is something I do for areas of photography that I question within myself. I do free photo's for areas of photography that I feel I still need growth in or if I've not had the chance to do before. I don't consider it a loss at all, because I get some experience and some photos for my portfolio if I do a good job.
I like to pay my dues in all areas of photography before I accept payment for it. Otherwise I cant say I'm experienced in it and feel worthy of payment if I question myself about it.
Just my thoughts about this kind of thing.

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Permalink Reply by Lunatock on July 15, 2008 at 1:28am

If I can meet two of my favorite musicians and enjoy VIP access while having fun, it's okay to me. It's not a "Free" gig, it's a trade. They trade you utilities that would normally cost money there for free in exchange for photos. VIP Access, free food and free drinks and "other goodies" (merchandise?) and the chance to meet some musicians that I'm a fan of.

See, unlike anyone else here, I'd enjoy it because it interests me. I was going to go to the Forecastle Fest anyway with some of my friends. But now, I just got a chance to get VIP for free to something I normally would've bought a ticket for, let alone a $50 VIP access and free food and drinks (which I also would've paid money for) just to take pictures for them (something else I enjoy).

So, in my situation, instead of going and paying 20 dollars and even more money for the food and drinks to enjoy a concert, I am not only going for free but getting VIP and getting a chance to meet two of my favorite musicians in exchange for photos covering the event. Seems fair enough to me, plus even though the photo credit could show you're a free photographer, it may not even mention that you did it for free and I can simply explain "I took photos in exchange for meeting GZA and Del and getting a free concert, but you have to pay me".

To me, this isn't a Senior Portrait, this is a rare chance for me to see some of my favorite musicians and meet them backstage for free. So what if I have to take a few photos? It'd be worth it to me - I'd be getting something back. I can totally understand if you don't like the idea, but its offer is more valuable to me than it would be to the next guy. To each his own - one man's trash is another man's treasure.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Stone on July 15, 2008 at 1:29am

Yeah...I'm old school where I think you should be paid for work.But then again, I make my entire living through photography. I try to pick up gigs outside the regular staff job to help. I've got bills to pay, a family to support and the need to build a financial base for the future. So, no. I don't understand why you would give away images just for experience. If I wanted to become a great mountain photographer such as Galen Rowell was, I wouldn't expect that Outside Magazine to use me just because I can provide them free images in exchange for experience and a credit line. I would probably have to learn how to mountain climb (on my dime) and learn how to shoot a self-financed trip to the Rockies or Sierras and create a portfolio. But I still wouldn't give away my images...

And insulting people with comments like "blow me" and "punk" is weak. I think most of us were responding to the original poster, who asked some valid questions. We gave honest answers.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Lewis on July 15, 2008 at 1:33am

The Rev said:

I think we need to remember here also that alot of photographers who are really great at certain areas of photography are still working on other areas that maybe they haven't had the opportunity to do yet and may question if they are worthy of being paid for something they haven't tried yet.

I honestly stopped reading right here. If youre doing a JOB for someone, you deserve to be PAID for it.

If someone said, "build me a dog house" would you build it for free because youre not sure how well you would do? No. You would either pass on it or you would build it and charge them for it.

This attitude of "well I dont know if Im good enough so Ill do it all for free" is EXACTLY what is bringing down everything in the photo world. 99.999% of the people out there think the worst pictures in the world are absolutely awesome so why would a company bother to pay a good photographer for quality pictures when they can exploit another photographer for OK ones?

Ill tell you why. Because people ALLOW THEM TO!

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Permalink Reply by Adam Lewis on July 15, 2008 at 1:37am

Lunatock said:

Funny how close-minded everyone is about this. I'd love to do it in general because it actually interests me. Most people here are all "Oh I won't do things for free", but this isn't exactly a profession of mine.
If I can meet two of my favorite musicians and enjoy VIP access while having fun, it's ok. VIP is $50 along with the rest of the food/drink being free - it's not a "Free" gig, it's a trade. They trade you utilities that would normally cost money there for free in exchange for photos. In fact, those photos could totally suck but it wouldn't matter because you'd be getting free VIP (To those who care, which obviously nobody does except me) and free food and access to everything. See, I would've gone anyway because I had planned to with a few friends, but this way I not only don't pay, but I get VIP access and free food/drink and more in exchange for some photos of mine that they might not even accept.

See, unlike anyone else here, I'd enjoy it because it interests me. I was going to go to the Forecastle Fest anyway, and the thing is - it shouldn't take any effort. So what if they don't choose some of my photos, I just got VIP for free to something I normally would've bought a ticket for, let alone a $50 VIP access. It's not like they'll give you free food after you take the photos - you get it first. If anything you can simply manipulate the situation to your advantage, which I also only seeing myself enjoying this notion because only I (it seems) would be going for the music and the fun, where as everyone else is too busy to do free coverage and such.

But to anyone who feels the need to look down on me or my decision to do this can - quite frankly - blow me. It's A-OK if you choose not to, but to try and belittle those who disagree with your stance is a punk.

It may not be a profession for you but it IS a profession for other people. Its a profession where people who do things for free are taking jobs away from the people who are trying to make a living doing it.

Do you even know how much real photographers are paid to cover an event? A $50 VIP pass and some free food pretty much is "free" to a large company. You are in no way manipulating this situation to your advantage, believe me. They are playing you like the cheap banjo that you are.

And wow. Thats a real classy line there with the "blow me" part worked in. It really makes me feel like the "punk" in this situation.
Whatever names you want to call me, Ill be the "punk" whos getting paid.

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Permalink Reply by The Rev on July 15, 2008 at 2:37am

quiet simply.......if I am the one doing the service..its my choice to set a price. If I feel that its something I want to do for free...it doesn't make me a bad photographer. If you chose not to do something along those lines because you have higher standards..well more power to ya. But you shouldn't down others for it if they chose to. I set standards for myself as well as goals. My point is its my services I say will make the choice of whats right and wrong for me. I don't need someone else to tell me...meanwhile Lunatock will be the one with all the great photos of that concert and can proudly post them as his own work....while you watch from afar or live through his photographs. He is trading an experience for a service...nothing wrong with that.

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Permalink Reply by Lunatock on July 15, 2008 at 3:23am

lol. Words on the internet. I can either pay money to see a concert, or go for free and take photos. I've done it before with local bands. And what should it matter to anyone else what I choose to do? To me, I benefit from it just as well as they do. I'm sorry that I'm not making a living off photography and that I don't need money for every gig just to put food on the table. It's a hobby of mine; I never claimed I was aiming to be a professional, I simply enjoy photography. It's something I am wanting to do. Don't get your panties in a bunch about something that doesn't even affect you. Just because I do one thing for free doesn't mean I do everything for free, and even in that sense, I still don't depend on photography to pay bills. If you do, more power to you, but for me this is just some fun to be had. Sorry.

And I'm surprised anyone ever read that initial message - I had deleted it and re-posted my second message with the hopes that nobody read the first. Sorry.

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